Episode 104: Cheap Modern Lenses

Episode 104 of the Camerosity Podcast tackles a listener-suggested topic: the flood of cheap, modern lenses coming out of Chinese manufacturers, offering fast apertures and wide focal lengths at prices unheard of in the classic camera era. Joining hosts Anthony, Paul, Stephen, and Mike is a large group of callers including Andy Howarth, Brendon Wilson, Fernando Villava, Mark "Cletus" Widhalm, Martin Olsen, Norris Liu, Pat Casey, Robert Rotoloni, and Will Pinkham. The show also announces that Fernando has launched a Spanish-language spinoff, "Camerosity in Spanish," which has already released two episodes.

The bulk of the discussion traces how the current wave of inexpensive Chinese lenses evolved, starting from low-quality C-mount lenses and progressing to today's more sophisticated offerings from brands like 7Artisans, TTArtisans, DJ Optical, and others, with Voigtländer/Cosina positioned as a pricier but more refined alternative to German glass. Stephen and Norris draw on their technical and historical knowledge to explain Chinese manufacturing philosophy, noting these lenses are often built to be disposable rather than long-lasting like vintage classics, sometimes feel nicer than their actual build quality suggests, and can suffer from issues like excessive lubricant. They also touch on the legal gray areas around third-party lens making (including why Nikon has gone after Viltrox), the lack of after-sale support from many Chinese makers, and the surprising sophistication of China's broader manufacturing base, illustrated by Norris's observations at CES. Paul singles out MS-Optics as a brand he personally dislikes, and the group defines "onion ring bokeh" as a common optical quirk. Tangents cover Retina Reflex repairs, fisheye and 360-degree cameras (including the Nikon KeyMission 360, GoPro, and Ricoh Theta), Brandon's experience using Chinese lenses on a Nikon Zf, and Fernando's success adapting Leica R lenses to Leica M bodies.

The overall takeaway is nuanced rather than a flat recommendation: modern Chinese lenses offer genuinely useful combinations of speed and focal length at low cost, and manufacturing quality in China has advanced dramatically, but buyers should understand these products are generally built for shorter lifespans and minimal support compared to vintage optics, and that quality varies significantly between brands and even individual copies.

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We are back with Episode 104 of the Camerosity Podcast. Unlike the last few shows where we didn’t come prepared with a topic to discuss, this time we took a suggestion from our Discord server listeners and attempted to tackle all the new lenses that keep appearing from Chinese companies, With ever faster maximum apertures and wider lenses selling for insanely cheap prices, are these lenses any good, and why suddenly is the market flooded with them?

Joining Anthony, Paul, Stephen, and Mike are callers Andy Howarth, Brendon Wilson, Fernando Villava, Mark “Cletus” Widhalm, Martin Olsen, Norris Liu, Pat Casey, Robert Rotoloni, and Will Pinkham. We start off the show with a quick announcement that Fernando has started a Spanish language version of the Camerosity Podcast called “Camerosity in Spanish”. They’ve already recorded two episodes, and if you speak Spanish, it is worth checking out what him and his guests are talking about!

For this show, we briefly start off our lens episode talking about Retina Reflexes, but thankfully we don’t stay distracted long as we move into the wonderful world of modern Chinese lenses. We attempt to cover different brands of lenses and what kinds of options there are out there and which ones we’ve personally had experience with.

Stephen and Norris have a wealth of technical knowledge and historical perspective for how the Chinese manufacturing industry works, and we get into a bit of why you’re seeing so many options these days. While many of the new ultra-fast lenses are extremely affordable, they are built to be disposable and likely won’t last nearly as long as the classic lenses many of us collect. Paul shares with us one (non-Chinese) brand that he doesn’t like and Stephen tells us what “onion ring bokeh” is.

Eventually we do move off from Chinese lenses to talk about extremely wide angle fisheye lenses and Stephen tells us about a clever use of his Olympus Air A01 and we briefly mention strange cameras like the Nikon KeyMission 360 Double Fisheye lens.

With Bob Rotoloni on, Paul asks about a Nikon M he is interested in buying and we get into a discussion about the Nikon M and different variants of that particular camera. We keep meandering topics before finally ending up Mike’s first purchase on the Japanese auction site, buyee.jp.

Come See Mike at the Chicago Camera Show: I will be heading up to the Sheraton Suites Chicago Elk Grove hotel for a camera show on Sunday, February 22nd. At this show will be several callers from this episode, Bob Rotoloni, Norris Liu, Mark Widhalm, and past Camerosity guests like Vlad Kern and possibly others. Mike won’t have a table at this one, but I’ll be walking around chatting with people so if you’re near the area and want to stop by, come see us!

As always, the topics we discuss on the Camerosity Podcast are influenced by you! Please don’t feel like you have to be an expert on a specific type of camera, or have the level of knowledge on par with other people on the show. We LOVE people who are into shooting or collecting cameras, no matter how long you’ve been doing it, so please don’t consider your knowledge level to be a prerequisite for joining!

The guys and I rarely know where each episode is going to go until it happens, so if you’d like to join us on a future episode, be sure to look out for our show announcements on our Camerosity Podcast Facebook page, the Camerosity Discord server, and right here on mikeeckman.com. We usually record every other Monday and announcements, along with the Zoom link are typically shared 2-3 days in advance.

We don’t have a topic for our next show, but we at least know it will be Episode 105 and we will record it on Monday, February 23rd at 7pm Central Standard Time and 8pm Eastern Standard Time. Make sure you set your calendars and look out for the show announcement at the usual locations and be prepared to join us!

In This Episode

The Spanish version of Camerosity Hosted by Fernando Villava / Cletus and His Broken Retina Reflex IV
Repairing Retina Reflexes / The Risk of Testing an Unserviced Camera / Leaf Shutter SLRs Are Very Complicated
Modern Lenses Have Combinations of Focal Lengths and Speed Unheard of in the Classic Era
How We Got to Today / Cheap Chinese Lenses Started with Low Quality C-Mount Lenses
The Legalities of Making Third Party Lenses / Why is Nikon Going After Viltrox?
Who Are the Most Respected of the Current Third Party Lens Makers? / Different Priorities for Film vs Digital
Some Third Party Lenses Require You to Calibrate Your Lens to Your Own Camera
What is the Difference between 7Artisans and TTArtisans? / DJ Optical
Voigtänder Cosina Lenses Are Less Expensive Alternatives to Genuine German Lenses
Some Chinese Lenses Feel Nicer Than They Really Are / Excessive Lubricants
The Chinese Make a Lot of Their Own Glass / Mike Has No Idea How Glass is Made
Leica No Longer Makes Their Own Glass but they Polish It / Onion Ring Bokeh
Are There Any Companies to Stay Away From / Paul Doesn’t Like MS-Optics Lenses
Differences Between Western and Chinese Manufacturing Philosophies
Chinese Manufacturers Typically Didn’t Offer After Sale Support or Warranties
China’s Manufacturing Today is Far More Advanced Than Anywhere Else in the World
Norris Goes to CES and Admires Hair Dryers / 40% of Exhibitors at CES are Chinese
For Vintage Camera Users You Don’t Always Want a Technically Perfect Lens
Stephen’s Olympus Air A01 and a 220 Degree Circular Fisheye Lens
Nikon KeyMission 360 Double Fisheye Cameras / Go Pro / Ricoh Theta Camera
Brandon Jumped into the Nikon Zf Using Chinese Lenses / Nikon Z-Mount Adapters
Fernando Adapted Leica R Lenses to Leica M and the Results are Great
Leica SLRs and Alpas are Almost Always Sold Without Lenses on eBay
Come See Mike, Bob, Norris, Vlad, and Cletus at the Chicago Camera Show on February 22nd
Paul Wants to Buy a Nikon M / The Three Different Types of Nikon M Rangefinders
Mike Made His First Ever Purchase on Buyee of 5 Cameras

Links

The Camerosity Podcast is now on Discord! Join Anthony, Paul, Theo, Stephen, and Mike on our very own Discord Server. Share your GAS and photography with other listeners in the Lounge or in our dedicated forums. If you have questions for myself or the other guys, we have an “Ask the Hosts” section as well where you can get your question answered on a future show! Check it out! https://discord.gg/PZVN2VBJvm.

If you would like to offer feedback or contact us with questions or ideas for future episodes, please contact us in the Comments Section below, our Camerosity Facebook Group, Instagram page, or Discord server.

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